Talk:Erasmus

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NPOV[edit]

I tried to add some balance to this blatantly Lutheran biased article. I changed the sentence "Erasmus was influential on Martin Luther who admired him and desired his friendship." to read "Erasmus's earlier writings were influential on Martin Luther who admired him and desired his friendship. Erasmus ultimately condemned Martin Luther's works." This change is based on the Catholic Encyclopedia http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05510b.htm

Yes, it looks like based on the Catholic Encyclopedia (from 1909 or so!). This sounds like crazily Catholic to me. Erasmus has not right to "condemn" anybody. Could we say they "disagreed", or something similarly truly NPOV?
Ceplm (talk) 13:16, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

Both Alexmarion and myself (below - sorry about not signing) the problems with the "Preparation for Death" quotation. I see it has been restored without comment. Can the restorer explain to us why the commentary around this quotation is not purely polemical? What is remotely scholarly or factual about saying that "no true Catholic could possibly have penned the following words" What is this based on? There is certainly no citation here. And the line "He was not a Roman Catholic in his heart?" How can that possibly be anything other than pure conjecture? I have removed it again. Rymac 19:59, 17 May 2006 165.127.196.68

The section on "Preparation for Death" is so obviously just an attempt to make Erasmus into a disloyal Catholic and a Lutheran. The quotation from Erasmus on how it is possible to be saved without the sacraments and that those with the sacraments can be damned merely reflects ancient Catholic wisdom, and was expanded further by St. Thomas Aquinas. The assertion that the passage proves that Erasmus "was not a Roman Catholic in his heart" is dishonest and absurd. I have deleted the section since it doesn't really make sense where it is in the article, anyway.


Should there be more mention of his role in traditionally considered to have established, if not popularized (at least in the Western world, as there are earlier, more thorough examples of such in Korea over 200 years ago in the creation of the Tripitaka Koreana) the practice and ideas of Textual criticism, aside from a very brief line saying that he prepared a new text of the New Testament? See also Textus receptus. Orangefoodie 12:06, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

This writer is flaunting his anti-catholic bias at the expense of historical accuracy by repeatedly suggesting that Erasmus was some sort of independant Reformer (because he can hardly deny that Erasmus condemned Luther and all other Reformer he mentions in his works), in the face of even of all of the quotes and works of Erasmus he cites that he admits show him to be a faithful son of the Catholic Church (although looked upon initially with suspicion by many ecclesiastics, whom he was openly critical of, anyway, so no surprise there). Then, to cap things off, he blows all decency intellectual honesty to the wind in misrepresenting Catholic doctrine and Erasmus' true faith, explicitly:

[In his own words, written in the little tract of 1533, "Preparation for Death", he verifies that, although he remained a Roman Catholic until his death, he was definitely not a Roman Catholic in his heart, for no true Catholic could possibly have penned the following words:

"I believe there are many not absolved by the priest, not having taken the Eucharist, not having been anointed, not having received Christian burial, who rest in peace. While many who have had all the rites of the Church and have been buried next to the altar, have gone to hell . . . Flee to His wounds and you will be safe." (Erasmus in "Treatise On Preparation For Death."]

Erasmus, here, is simply eloquently and piously (and very catholically) restating an axiom of every religion that has ever existed, namely, that actions speak louder than words... --Alexmarison 06:36, 15 April 2006 (UTC)


This article reads like the first paragraph is missing. How about starting with a brief summary of who Erasmus was and what he did, (and when he lived), before getting into the details of his birthname and place.



Does anyone really call him 'of Rotterdam'? It took me a minute to be sure that it was the same person. After all, he had a perfectly good first name - 'Desiderius'.

see:

Erasmus of Rotterdam, the Man and the Scholar : Proceedings of the Symposium Held at the Erasmus University, Rotterdam, 9-11 November 1986 by J. Sperna Weiland (Editor), W. Th. M. Frijhoff (Editor), J. spern Weiland


hmmm. looks suspiciously dutch-speaking to *me*. But then I'm an Amurican, and, admittedly, not a specialist in early modern Europe. On Amazon the only hit 'Erasmus of Rotterdam' turns up as first version is the Penguin "Praise of Folly", while Desiderius Erasmus turns up many more, including the collected works coming out of Toronto University Press. Google turns up 4,910 hits on 'desiderius erasmus' vs. 2,510 on 'erasmus of rotterdam'. Those things said, I am generally agnostic about nomenclature - I believe strongly in redirects. Leave him here or move him. --MichaelTinkler
I was going to say that the Rotterdam is superfluous, since just Erasmus is normally enough, but my "Essential Erasmus" calls him E of R...JHK
My 2000 print of "Praise of Folly" has both 'Desiderius Erasmus'and 'Erasmus' on the front page. Another book about him calls him E of R just sideways; other than that it's all Erasmus. Even though I was born in Rotterdam, and know where to find his statue :), I would not use E of R. here, it's just not the first name people call him by.--TK
Regardless of how we address him, though, Erasmus of Rotterdam is what he went by. A look at the salutations from Allen's Latin edition of his letters will prove that. A brief selection from 1519, with the original Latin and my own (loose) English translation:

ERASMVS ROTERDAMVS D. MARTINO BRVXELLENSI S. D. - Erasmus of Rotterdam wishes health for D. Martin of Bruxellensis (Brussels?).
ILLVSTRISS. SAXONIAE DVCI FRIDERICO ERASMVS ROTEROD. S. P. - Erasmus of Rotterdam wishes great health for the most famous Duke of Saxony, Frederick.
ERASMVS ROTE. D. MARTINO LVTERIO. - Erasmus of Rotterdam to Dr. Martin Luther.
--Dd42 02:33, May 10, 2005 (UTC)

Talk from List of famous Dutch people, discussing on the move of the pages:

Jheijmans, why do you think that Erasmus of Rotterdam will be clearer than the previous description Desiderius Erasmus? Just curious... link is identical.

Good question. I thought that because his name was listed as such in Wikipedia, it would be the best name, but after checking, I discovered that there's some (unresolved?) discussion on this at Talk:Erasmus of Rotterdam. Anyway, I thought the "of Rotterdam" in Latin was unnecessary. I'll try to find what his best known name in English is, that's where the article (and this link) should be. Jeronimo
Looked into the topic some more, and it appears that he is best known (in English) as simply "Erasmus". If anything else is said, it's "Desiderius Erasmus". However, as Erasmus is still free (and in fact a redirect to Erasmus of Rotterdam), I'll move him there. Jeronimo
Although it was common in the middle ages to pick the name of one's hometown as a last name, appointing Erasmus to 'Erasmus of Rotterdam'seems an obsolete reference to me. Shouldn't Erasmus name speak for itself like the names Paracelsus and Nostradamus do ? - --84.87.5.13 12:56, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

This article is copied from [1], a URL which says "© 2001" at the bottom of it. Does anyone know if we have permission to use this? Kingturtle 05:25 May 5, 2003 (UTC)

Looks like a copyvio. Needs a heavy rewrite anyway.
Could revert to an earlier version before the IEP content was introduced. Jeff

"Institutio Principis Christiani (Basel, 1516), written as advice to the young king Charles of Spain, later the emperor Charles V. Here Erasmus applies the same general principles of honor and sincerity to the special functions of the Prince, whom he represents throughout as the servant of the people. "

Should probably be contrasted to The Prince by Niccolo Machiavelli which is his advice to the Medicis, written at almost exactly the same time, but with quite opposite advice. ;-)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.177.109.111 (talk • contribs) 01:14, 27 August 2003 (UTC)

Erasmus born in Gouda?[edit]

I heard on the news that Erasmus was born in Gouda,Is this true?

Make this shorter.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.156.71.55 (talk • contribs) 9:35, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Influence on Luther?[edit]

Nitpicking, I suppose, but I really don't think it can be fair to say that Erasmus was THE inspiration for Martin Luther. How can this article simply say that this is known as fact? Perhaps rejigging the wording to 'thought to have been an influence on Martin Luther'? As far as I am aware, the influences on Martin Luther varied from personal convictions about indulgences and contrition to outrage at the papacy, and even individuals (it could be argued) such as Huss. However, recent historical debate has pointed out that Luther was not heavily influenced by the humanists such as Erasmus at all. Indeed, Erasmus was apathetic towards Luther, and Erasmus's great friend Thomas More (a notable humanist) described Luther as a 'pig'. In light of all this I strongly wish to see this introduction changed.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by PJAJ (talk • contribs) 11:48, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

The debate concerning Luther and Erasmus has been raging ever since the Reformation itself. Luther is my specialist subject, and I have dealt extensively with the realtionship between Luther and Erasmus. Whilst the popular saying "Erasmus laid the egg whihc Luther hatched" has a ring of truth to it; it must be remembered that the crux of the matter is that Erasmus wished to reform ecclesiastical abuses within the Catholic Church, whereas Luther fundamentally attacked the doctrine (although his 1517 95 theses dealt with indulgences). Also, although letters from the very early years of the Reformation show cordial and admiring correspomdemce between the two, they differed in many areas, and were antagonists following the 1525 Bondage of the Will debates. I consider that the author of this article has a very rose tinted view of the realtionship between these two great men.

El

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.231.150.154 (talk • contribs) 10:18, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Quotes?[edit]

Could someone (more knowledgeable then I) add some of his quotes? He's the one who said, "In The Land of The Blind, The One-Eyed Man Is King", isn't he?

— Preceding unsigned comment added by DrGero49 (talk • contribs) 19:06, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

@DrGero49: Looks like some are added now, but maybe without a proper citation/verifiable source, under the section "Writings":
'...He is credited with coining the adage, "In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king." With the collaboration of Publio Fausto Andrelini, he formed a Paremiography (collection) of Latin proverbs and adages, commonly titled Adagia. Erasmus is also generally credited with originating the phrase "Pandora's box", arising through an error in his translation of Hesiod's Pandora in which he confused pithos (storage jar) with pyxis (box).'
Ken K. Smith (a.k.a. Thin Smek) (talk) 02:16, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 3 October 2016[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Move. We have clear consensus that the subject is best known as simply "Erasmus", which already redirects here. Cúchullain t/c 15:13, 11 October 2016 (UTC)


Desiderius Erasmus → Erasmus – He is pretty much invariably known mononymously as Erasmus and this name already redirects here. I can't see any reason to also have his first name (which actually wasn't his first name, as explained in the article!), almost never used, in the title. This is not some obscure individual; this is one of the most famous scholars in history, universally recognised under a single name. -- Necrothesp (talk) 07:56, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

Seems appropriate, provided that the longer name he used remains in the lead sentence (it would be fine to rephrase it; perhaps along the lines of, "Erasmus, sometimes known as Desiderius Erasmus Roterodamus [note 1]"). The hatnote might also need to be changed; "other persons" would seem to be more important than "other uses" since it's a personal name first and other uses are based on it. I believe it could be refactored accordingly. P Aculeius (talk) 13:25, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
The lead sentence can stay the way it is. A move won't affect that, as it is normal for the lead to reflect full names whatever the title of the article. I don't think there's any need to change the hatnote, since many of the uses on the disambiguation page are not people, many in fact being things named after this Erasmus (one of the best-known is the Erasmus Programme, for instance). -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:34, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
  • Support per nom. The status of "Desiderius" isn't actually explained well in the article - one would also like clarity as to what his neighbourhood though he was called as a kid - presumably they didn't use Latin. Gerrit Rutgers? Johnbod (talk) 14:05, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
  • Support per nomination. Erasmus is even given as an example at Mononymous person#Europe. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 18:13, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
  • Support, obviously correct, indeed it's surprising that wasn't the article's title already. Now what was Luther's first name... Chiswick Chap (talk) 06:44, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Pronunciation of Roterodamus[edit]

What is the English pronunciation for "Roterodamus"? Maybe this can be added to the IPA transcription so it covers his full name. – Editør (talk) 09:50, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

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Enhance section on Erasmus "Religious Toleration"?[edit]

Erasmus is so great that it would not diminish his greatness to mention that he expressed antisemitic sentiments. Please consider adding a sentence or two in the section "Religious toleration".Gery.shachar (talk) 16:06, 22 October 2019 (UTC)


Who is the greatest scholar of the northern Renaissance?[edit]

My Wikipedians,

I would call into question the validity of the following clauses in the first line of the opening paragraph. "[...]who is widely considered to have been the greatest scholar of the northern Renaissance". James D. Tracy, a historian, is cited as authority for this claim, but the cited article itself is unsubstantiated, and as in the Wikipedia article, does not say by what measure. I can find no credible consensus - only the EB article and sites copying Wikipedia verbatim. It may not be wrong to say he was one of the greatest scholars of the northern Renaissance, but in positing it is a material fact that he was the greatest, the clauses are rendering an opinion to be absolute.

I would therefore dismiss this claim. The mistake of the editor has been induced by a material misrepresentation of the historian. Contributer232312 (talk) 21:26, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

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