Talk:Edgar Allan Poe/Archive 4

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Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3 Archive 4 Archive 5 Archive 6 → Archive 9

Possibly misleading grammar

the first para line "has been attributed to alcohol, brain congestion, cholera, drugs, heart disease, rabies, suicide, tuberculosis, and other agents" seems to imply that all these were the cause of death. The line might read "has variously been attributed to alcohol, ..."

Heffernon

Does anybody know if there is a character called Heffernon (a gardener or odd job man) in any of Poe's stories? I ask because in the 60's there used to be a TV series called Tales of Mystery and Imagination, and I think it was based on Poe's stories.

i think in the tell tale heart the butler has a name sort of the same

I have a vague recollection of a story with this character, but just cannot pin it down.

There is no butler in "The Tell-Tale Heart". I'll help as best I can: there is no Poe-created character named Heffernon. If something comes to mind, it's almost definitely some more modern adaptation. --Midnightdreary (talk) 21:38, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Eureka

i found this mentioned in the article on spacetime, which suggests EAP was indeed the first person to proposition this theory. the Eureka (Edgar Allan Poe) article also mentions very interesting scientific importances, however i can find no mention of it in this article. can someone with a comprehensive grasp of this page's structure add this where appropriate? it seems highly relevant. --132.170.34.22 03:53, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

He has all kinds of original theories in there. But it may be stuck in Edgar Allan Poe's literary influence right now, along with his influence on cryptography, etc. Otherwise, it seems just fine to me to be in Eureka. Any other thoughts on this one? --Midnightdreary 19:56, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Poe's Occupations

I'm not sure what Poe's exact occupation/s was/were. As you can see I listed what I believed to be his correct occupation/s in the "Occupation" section but I now believe what I have contributed to be incorrect information. If anyone knows his correct occupation/s could you please correct my mistakes? Thanks. This I what I put for in the "Occupation" section: poet, short story writer, playwright, editor, literary critic and essayist. I also added that Poe was a playwright to various pages, this is because Poe has written a script (perhaps more than one) though playwriting was not (as far as I am aware) his main focus. If you think Poe should not be listed as a playwright due to his minimal contribution to this field please let me know. Conrad McGrath 03:21, 2 August 2007 (UTC)


I think this is over the top. Let's keep it simple. Just because someone writes a single (unfinished) play does not make them a playwright. By the way, remember to add new discussion topics to the END of these pages, not the top! :) --Midnightdreary 03:49, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Sorry about putting my discussion at the top, I'm quite new here and am adjusting. Well I suppose if you think it's over the top for Poe to be labeled a playwright you want his name to be removed from the various lists of playwrights and from this page, correct? :). Conrad McGrath 15:05, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Legacy

So I collapsed a bunch of stuff into one big Legacy section. Not sure how I feel about it. I pulled in the section on "Preserved homes" from the new literary influence article (it clearly is not literary). I'm not sure if putting it all under Legacy (formerly "Legacy and lore," which sounds cool but doesn't really mean anything) is the most sensible, but it's separate from the biography stuff (which I think was the original point of a lot of these splits). Clean-up might be needed, or perhaps better sectioning. --Midnightdreary 19:58, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Poe Portal

If anyone is interested, I'm now maintaining the brand new Portal:Edgar Allan Poe. The idea is to have a fun entry to serious and casual fans of Poe. Contributors welcome! --Midnightdreary 19:30, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Categories

I'm bringing this up for discussion because there seems to be some (unvoiced) contention. This article is currently not listed in any Christianity-related categories. I don't think they are relevant (i.e. Poe is not first and foremost a "Christian writer") and difficult to identify (i.e. I would suggest finding a source that he self-identified as a Christian). The same is true for "Former atheists" and "Christian converts." My personal opinion (and I hope this doesn't come across as a personal attack) is that anonymous users are pushing a minor agenda. Anyway, I would suggest discussion of potential new categories so we can come to some kind of consensus or, at least, an understanding for the reasoning for these (potentially contentious) categories. Make sense? Thanks! :) --Midnightdreary 21:25, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

These same categories were added again today. I removed them again. This is another offer to discuss. :) --Midnightdreary 00:13, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Literary and artistic theory

'Poe argues in his literary theory essay "The Philosophy of Composition", the ending should be written first.' No, he argued that the ending should always be borne in mind when writing what precedes it, and that the beginning and middle should tend to the ending and ultimate effect. Writing the ending first and bearing the ending steadily in mind are two different things.

'Much of Poe's work was allegorical, but his position on allegory was a nuanced one: "In defence of allegory, there is scarcely one respectable word to be said . . . .' What evidence is there that much of his work was allegorical? The statement that his work was allegorical is not supported by a quotation showing his dislike of allegory.Hodgson

I agree. I think this particular section is in the most need of citations. I'll dig around, but help is welcome. --Midnightdreary 22:45, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Categories

This comment is directed to Midnightdreary.

It was me who added the categories "Christian writer", "american Christians" and "former atheists".

Sincerely, I think that, probably, like many other romantic writers, Poe held some christian beliefs, or at least, he believed in the existence of God. His last words were "Lord, help my pour soul!" and i don't think that he would start to believe in God in his last seconds of life. He was also raised in a christian home, and both his foster and biological families were christian.

I also think that, probably, like many other writers, he passed through an atheistic period in his life. This are two quotes of Poe that made think that: "The pioneers and missionaries of religion have been the real cause of more trouble and war than all other classes of mankind." "No man who ever lived knows any more about the hereafter ... than you and I; and all religion ... is simply evolved out of chicanery, fear, greed, imagination and poetry." (Probably, this quotes don't make him an atheist. Probably, like many writers, he was in favor of religion, but against organized Churches.)

I also want to warn you that i am a little bit stubborn so, PROBABLY, i will add those categories again!--Buchinha 18:14, 22 August 2007 (GMT) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Buchinha (talk • contribs).

Thanks for responding here. So you are basically admitting that your adding of these categories is based on pure speculation or on original research ("like many other writers, he passed through an atheistic period" - that's purely speculative and probably not provable). That's certainly a no-no. If your best evidence is Poe's final words being "Lord, help my poor soul!" you certainly have more work to do: Poe probably never said those words (see Death of Edgar Allan Poe for the reliability of that source). The text of the main article really should include a discussion about religion if he is going to be categorized into religious categories. That discussion must be sourced with reliable sources. Stubborn or not, we're trying to make a solid encyclopedia article here. Keep adding it if you must, but I'll keep reverting it until there is solid evidence to make those additions appropriate. I'm not trying to be a pain, but it's worth reading the Wikipedia policies so you get a better understanding of some standard norms we follow here. (By the way, don't forget to sign your comments. Thanks!) --Midnightdreary 17:38, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

i think that Edgar Allen Poe was really crazy , because he would just rite about is ppls ddieing !!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.211.107.173 (talk) 22:14, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, I think you're bad at English because all you write has bad grammar and spelling. Well, at least all that I'm familiar with. Maybe if I was more familiar with your writing I wouldn't make such a broad assumption or, really, if I knew more about your personal life story I wouldn't judge you based on your writing. Hmm... I wonder if I'm being didactic? =) --Midnightdreary 22:23, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism

School is clearly back in session... you can smell it in the air and see it in all the vandalism on this page. =) Any interested editors out there, now is the time to add this article to your watchlist. It might be worth semi-protecting this article (again) soon, too. --Midnightdreary 21:48, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

I have managed to get the article semi-protected for a month; the inane vandalism should therefore decrease now. (finally) -- Chris B • talk • contribs 17:13, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Semi-protected ;) - Alison ☺ 17:16, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Awesome. Thanks! I'm sure in a month any given night in the lonesome October will have just as much vandalism. I look forward to it. ;) --Midnightdreary 18:03, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

I dont think u even need 2 ask that question —Preceding unsigned comment added by Funkyfrog333 (talk • contribs) 22:20, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

4-chan has vandalized this page too (probably more than one person), I suggest protected status.142.177.110.164 (talk) 03:06, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Football team nickname (from "Other")

In 1996, the NFL franchise known as the Cleveland Browns relocated to Baltimore and assumed a new identity, including a new nickname, the Ravens (...)

It's not a nickname, it's a name. Unless they mean that the full name is "Baltimore Ravens"? Or is there something I'm missing? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tvon (talk • contribs) 20:08, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Technically, it is a nickname. Their actual name (usually used only on contracts) is something like "The Professional Football Club of Baltimore, MD." (This is true of all sports teams; for example, the Boston American Professional Baseball Club is much better known by its nickname, the Red Sox.) Fumblebruschi (talk) 18:10, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Removed false A-class status

Even though this article did not pass during its recent A class review, the Wikiproject tags at the top of the page all listed the article as A class. I have now corrected this. However, I still think this is an excellent article and I encourage the editors here to either reapply for an A class review or try for FA status. --Alabamaboy 03:07, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

weird stuff due to some template or another?

Maybe it's just me but right now, if I go into edit mode on this article there are a bunch of "documentation" showhides and some stray noincludes showing at the very bottom of the article. These are not present if just viewing. No time to determine exactly why right now, sorry. Perhaps someone else knows why? ++Lar: t/c 00:56, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Who?

I looked Poe up yesterday and it showed something really weird. It said Remeis McFillmin in place of EAP's name. Anyone got any idea why? Mack-the-random 20:54, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

poe's mother died died when he was about three. she died of tuberculosis and she wasn't last woman poe loved to be stricken with this deadly disease. his had left him and his mother when he around 1 year of age. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.145.121.246 (talk) 23:31, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Poe Toaster

The full section on the Poe Toaster was removed (without discussion) and relegated to a link under "See also." Are there any thoughts on this? --Midnightdreary 02:36, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

The Poe Toaster has absolutely nothing to do with the circumstances of the death of Poe. It's a fabricated and much hyped event that started more than 100 years after Poe's death, and thus belongs to the realm of popular culture surrounding Poe. Since there is an article on "Poe in popular culture", and since the toaster would fit very well there, I'm taking the section out again. Tomixdf 08:13, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

You should consider trying to reach a consensus before making such a drastic change. I, for one, am more than mildly opposed to the removal of the Poe Toaster section. Anyone else? --Midnightdreary 13:29, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
Consensus is fine. I didn't think this would be an issue, actually. Removing a section that is so blatantly irrelevant can hardly be called "drastic". The Poe Toaster has absolutely NO relevance to either work or life of EA Poe, and does IMO not deserve such a prominant place in the article. The toaster started this practice more than 100 years after Poe's death. Does some prankster that leaves notes about American football and the war in Iraq on Poe's grave once a year really deserve a whole subsection in the article on Poe? Think not. Tomixdf 15:35, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
I'm opposed to this removal, it might not be especially relevant here to the point of getting its own section, but it deserves more than a link in See also. At least a sentence in the "death" section would be desirable. If by much hyped event, you mean there are dozens of sources to establish notability and importance, then yes, it is "much hyped." Mr.Z-man 18:45, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
I mean hyped, as in mentioned all over the place without justification. The PT has nothing to do with Poe's life or work, and as such does not deserve to be discussed at length in this article. The PT most certainly deserves to be mentioned in the context of Poe & Popular culture etc. Tomixdf 19:10, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for discussing. I see your point, but I disagree with you. Poe's life (as we know it) is made up in large part with hearsay, rumors, intrigue, and mystery. The Poe Toaster is a part of that. In the Poe circle, he/she plays a part in Poe discussions. Perhaps it's in the wrong spot, but it seems it deserves some place in this article - possibly under "Legacy" rather than "Death"?. --Midnightdreary 22:51, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
Being new to E.A. Poe and having just read a short biography about him, I read the wikipedia entry and right away wondered what Poe Toaster was doing so prominently in this article. It has no relevance to his live and work. It might be important to a group of people and deserve a place under "Poe in the modern day", but I can't see what the interest of this is to world wide readers, searching for information about Poe, and especially I can't see why it is so prominently featured. -- By the way, I also opened the talk page to ask why under Virginia's photo it says her premature death may have inspired some of his work. May and some seem to totally undermine the statement, plus she died only two years before he did, or is that just me? Joost 99 (talk) 13:30, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
I think the Poe Toaster's current placement written in a pretty decent summary style works okay. As far as Virginia, how should we undermine the statement less, considering it's an unproven opinion? Unfortunately, all the opinions come from critics after the fact, with Poe himself not suggesting it himself (unless I'm wrong here?). But, with that said, you can't read any critical work on Poe without a mention that it has to do with Virginia, especially "Annabel Lee", et al. I don't agree, myself. Nonetheless, I'm open to changing the caption. --Midnightdreary (talk) 14:22, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the reply. Virginia's importance is why I mentioned it, because the statement seemed to me to diminish that. Maybe: her sickness and death had a major impact on Poe's life (I'm not familiar with the exact rules of making a statement like that. The role in his work is more accurately stated in citation 35). As far as Poe Toaster (I realize my text is quite blunt, sorry for that) I believe it would fit far better under legacy, especially because it has nothing to do with the death of Poe in 1849. It started 100 years after his burial by (probably) just one person, and, in my opinion, is therefor out of place in that section of the text. Joost 99 (talk) 16:40, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

(Undent) Joost, you're absolutely right! I had thought we had already moved the Poe Toaster under "Legacy" but apparently I was wrong (and, typical of me, I didn't bother looking). I'm glad you agree with the suggestion, though, so I went ahead and moved it. I'm not 100% sure of where it belongs under "Legacy"... if you're interested, feel free to move it up or down - as an admitted outsider looking in, your fresher eyes might be better suited than mine! Again, sorry for my confusion! --Midnightdreary (talk) 17:24, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Pseudo science

The article says "Poe often included elements of popular pseudosciences such as phrenology[41] and physiognomy[42] in his fiction." But were phrenology and physiognomy in Poe's time not considered as bona fide sciences? Tomixdf 10:42, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

From Pseudoscience: Pseudoscience is any body of knowledge, methodology, belief, or practice that claims to be scientific or is made to appear scientific, but does not adhere to the basic requirements of the scientific method. - This suggests that if something is pseudoscience now, it always has been and always will. Mr.Z-man 18:49, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Death

Didn't Poe die in Baltimore Medical Hospital? I believe that another hospital is listed, but I'm not sure. I was told that he was brought to the Baltimore Hospital. I really don't know, some of these facts may be wrong about him, but who really knows exactly everything about his life?-BlueAmethyst .:*:. 04:46, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, we certainly know a lot... As far as the hospital, I've always seen it referred to as "Washington College Hospital" (which is in Baltimore) in multiple sources. See Death of Edgar Allan Poe for a lengthy note on the name of the hospital. It seems to be referred to differently colloquially. I did a search for "Baltimore Medical Hospital" and found nothing, so it goes to show that "actual" names vs. what the locals name it can be different. --Midnightdreary 12:55, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
Ah, thanks for searching! I will stick to "Washington College Hospital" from now on. Yes, actual names and local names really can mess up anybody!-BlueAmethyst .:*:. 16:26, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

What's next?

What's next with this article? I suggest we take it to Peer Review to prepare for another attempt at Featured Article. We'll also ask whether or not dedicating space to the "Poe Toaster" is relevant or not (see above) and if we've finally gotten enough citations. Are we ready now, or should we do more work first? --Midnightdreary 19:32, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

I think the "Literary and artistic theory" section needs more citations from peers and scholars, and some examination of his writing style and its development. (We shouldn't just fall back on The Philosophy of Composition!!!) Perhaps consider mining the "Legacy" article for information about Poe as a writer. Malkinann (talk) 03:23, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

And just because it will come up at peer review, so it's better to get it out of the way now: The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.

  • The lead of this article may be too long, or may contain too many paragraphs. Please follow guidelines at WP:LEAD; be aware that the lead should adequately summarize the article.[?]
  • The lead is for summarizing the rest of the article, and should not introduce new topics not discussed in the rest of the article, as per WP:LEAD. Please ensure that the lead adequately summarizes the article.[?]
  • Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (numbers), when doing conversions, please use standard abbreviations: for example, miles -> mi, kilometers squared -> km2, and pounds -> lb.[?]
  • Per Wikipedia:Context and Wikipedia:Build the web, years with full dates should be linked; for example, link January 15, 2006.[?]
  • Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (headings), headings generally do not start with articles ('the', 'a(n)'). For example, if there was a section called ==The Biography==, it should be changed to ==Biography==.[?]
  • Per WP:WIAFA, this article's table of contents (ToC) may be too long – consider shrinking it down by merging short sections or using a proper system of daughter pages as per Wikipedia:Summary style.[?]
  • Watch for redundancies that make the article too wordy instead of being crisp and concise. (You may wish to try Tony1's redundancy exercises.)
    • Vague terms of size often are unnecessary and redundant - "some", "a variety/number/majority of", "several", "a few", "many", "any", and "all". For example, "All pigs are pink, so we thought of a number of ways to turn them green."
  • Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a.[?]

You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Malkinann (talk) 03:23, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree, I think the Literary and artistic theory section is weakest as far as sources. I'll do what I can. Most of these automated suggestions don't seem to apply in my opinion, but I've seen the article so many times I probably wouldn't notice anyway. Is there a copy editors WikiProject somewhere we can call in? --Midnightdreary (talk) 03:45, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
Yes there is, Wikipedia:WikiProject League of Copyeditors. Malkinann (talk) 03:57, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
I think the section on "Literary and artistic theory" could be a bit shorter, so I removed a couple things that are either difficult to source or trite (no offense is meant). To say, for example, that Poe was a proponent of magazines is silly: of course he supported his own career. Also, the idea that each of his story's held a single theme (i.e. fear or guilt) is interesting but sounds like original research. It seems like an adaptation of Poe's theory on "unity of effect" in poetry extended to fiction; if I find a source, I'll add it back. Other than that, we're moving right along! When we're ready, we'll have to call in the Copy Editors! --Midnightdreary (talk) 13:17, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
By the way, how would people feel about removing the "Imitators" subsection entirely? I'm not sure if this Lizzie Doten who claimed to channel Poe's spirit is particularly notable. --Midnightdreary (talk) 02:20, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Featured article nomination

Well, I think I'm going to nominate it for featured article tonight. Is anyone else willing to keep an eye on the nomination and help make any suggested changes they might have? In the meantime, too, let's self-identify the weakest points of the article. I'd say the lead and the Literary and aesthetic theory section (because it really only discusses two essays). The rest seems fully sourced and well-written and edited. Any other thoughts? --Midnightdreary (talk) 18:14, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Currently undergoing review. I could use some help in responding to some of the suggestions and concerns that have been dropped there (my ability to commit time to Wikipedia has been challenged of late). Any help would be greatly appreciated! Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Edgar Allan Poe --Midnightdreary (talk) 04:14, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Biography

I think the 'Selected Biography' section shouldn't only include fiction. Does anyone else have this opinion? Dex Stewart (talk) 22:41, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

That's a very good point... He certainly had some notable criticism (is that what you are referring to?), not to mention essays. Any suggestions which we should include? By the way, I think you meant "Bibliography." :) --Midnightdreary (talk) 02:47, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
Well... I should first warn you that I did not read one single non-fiction work of his, and thus all my suggestions are based on the (seemingly) full Bibliography of Edgar Allan Poe and the articles said bibliography links to. Another problem is, all works which I think should be added are already in the article. So...
In the first place, as he was a writer after all, I think either "The Philosophy of Composition" or "The Poetic Principle" should be noted. After that, it seems to me that the Balloon Hoax was the most well known non-fiction work in his time, and still is. You might also want to add "Eureka" and "A Few Words on Secret Writing" to further reflect his interest for cryptography and physics.
Also, under fiction, you might want to add "The Narrative of Arthur Gordon Pym of Nantucket", because it was the only novel he wrote, and it seems to me that if a someone wrote at least one text of a certain type, at least one text of that type should be noted (even if it's the only one) Dex Stewart (talk) 20:01, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
Well, I don't want to overdo it; it's just supposed to be an overview section. But, I'll leave it up to you: add whatever you feel is most relevant. --Midnightdreary (talk) 20:39, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
As you wish. Also, you mentioned a few rows up that he had "some notable criticism". Could you give some examples? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dex Stewart (talk • contribs) 20:56, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
The only ones I'd consider notable are his review of Dickens's Master Humphrey's Clock and Nathaniel Hawthorne's Twice-Told Tales... on second consideration, though, they're really not notable enough for inclusion here (in my opinion). --Midnightdreary (talk) 21:27, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Burton Gentlemen's Magazine

The article references both Burton Gentlemen's Magazine and Burton Gentleman's Magazine (i.e. men vs. man). Are both titles correct? Making things more confusing is that the wikilink for the magazine goes to Burton Gentlemen's Magazine, but the scanned image for the magazine article clearly reads Burton Gentleman's Magazine. Unless both name versions are correct, the article needs the minor correction (and possibly the wikilinked article, or at least an explanation for why the image differs from the title). Michael Devore (talk) 13:56, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Actually, in Burton's short run, it had like 10 different minor variations on its title. So, yes, it's confusing. Blame Mr. Burton! There should be a Wikilink in there somewhere, too. On second look, though, that article doesn't mention the variations in title. I'll see if I can find more info this weekend. --Midnightdreary (talk) 15:22, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
Ahh, interesting. The change didn't happen when his subscription count went above one? (Mr. Burton probably wouldn't appreciate that remark. But he's been dead for 147 years, so I'll make it anyway). Michael Devore (talk) 15:52, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
Actually, I did some further research on this and it seems like "Burton's Gentleman's Magazine" is the standard title, even with the variations it had over the years. I'm having trouble moving the article from Burton's Gentlemen's Magazine... can someone help? --Midnightdreary (talk) 18:45, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
Oops, the move fails because Burton's Gentleman's Magazine is an existing page which redirects to Burton's Gentlemen's Magazine. Of course, that's the exact opposite of what you want. On the chance you didn't already know this, you can either copy and paste the Men content over to the existing Man page and #redirect to Man from Men yourself, or ping a favored admin to delete+move if you want the history to go along with it. -- Michael Devore (talk) 15:42, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
Yup, that's it. I was hoping to have an admin step in (as I understand, the copy and paste method is frowned upon). Is there a page to request these kinds of moves? --Midnightdreary (talk) 16:13, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Requested moves should do it. Possibly faster to pick an admin you've ever dealt with in the past who seems like a decent sort and ask them to do it on their talk page. I have seen similar requests on many admin pages. -- Michael Devore (talk) 16:29, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
Mission accomplished! Thanks for catching this to begin with! --Midnightdreary (talk) 18:34, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Ravens mascots

Shouldn't we mention the Baltimore Ravens mascots, named Edgar, Allan, and Poe? Dalekusa (talk) 16:15, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Absolutely. I think it's a necessary piece of information for the Baltimore Ravens article. As for this one...? Not really. It's really not that notable to Poe's personal biography. --Midnightdreary (talk) 17:05, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Proofreader's comments

Hi Midnightdreary (talk). I've picked a few nits here and there, nothing that I'd call big except for that one citation fix. I hunted for nits only and did not bother my head much with content. Hunting for missing en dashes is a nice vacation from the harder stuff. Good luck with the FAC. Finetooth (talk) 23:32, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Works at Internet Archive

The article is currently locked for anon edits. Could someone add the Internet Archives collection of over 100+ scanned books by Poe to the External Links section, right underneath the Project Gutenberg line:

Thanks. -- 71.191.42.242 (talk) 03:36, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Looks like a good link. I'll add it. Thanks! --Midnightdreary (talk) 14:31, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Poe As a Philosopher

In view of Poe having penned 'The Philosophy of Composition' and the 'Philosophy of Furniture', could he not, in his own right, be deemed a 'philosopher' (albeit an aesthetic philosopher)? For many a man deemed a 'philosopher' has completed an equal or lesser body of work. -- Grammaticus VII (talk) 14:20, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Giving suggestions for how to decorate a parlor doesn't make one a philosopher. If so, the writers of Better Homes and Gardens would have to be considered philosophers... and I don't think we wanna go there. If anything makes Poe a philosopher, it'd be Eureka: A Prose Poem, but I haven't seen any biographers or critics make that leap. "Literary theorist" applies for "The Philosophy of Composition" and there's already a section on that in the article. Either way, I think the word "philosopher" is a bit strong if you're referring to Poe. --Midnightdreary (talk) 14:45, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I intended to state Eureka as well after I had submitted the post. Now, how is Eureka much different than De Rerum Natura? They both rife with scientific faults, but both are philosophical in their own right -- and for this, Lucretius is deemed both poet and philosopher. Do you believe that Poe is wanting in terms of philosophical sentiment? Moreover, to clarify, I am not presenting an argument; rather, I was curious as to how this would be received. I simply wish to discuss the matter. -- Grammaticus VII (talk) 19:17, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
Well, it's an interesting point... for the purpose of this article, of course, we'd need a source if we wanted to add the assertion that Poe should be considered a philosopher. I'm not familiar with Lucretius or De Rerum Natura... but what always makes interpretations of Eureka so difficult is that Poe himself said it should be judged solely as a poem. An odd suggestion, that's for sure. --Midnightdreary (talk) 23:44, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Scots-Irish

I see that User:Mayumashu has deleted the claim that Poe was born to a Scots-Irish family. He wrote in the edit summary that there was no source for this information. Was this fair? I assume that sentence was sourced to Hervey Allan's introduction in The Works of Edgar Allan Poe (ref #4), but I don't have access to that book at the moment. Zagalejo^^^ 21:52, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm digging through my sources as time permits. Frankly, I'm not bothered by its removal anyway. I have seen sources that claim he's Irish, German, Polish... everyone seems interested in claiming Poe as one of their own! --Midnightdreary (talk) 21:53, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Well, this, this, and this claim that he is of Scots-Irish descent. I'm kinda curious who argued he was Polish. :) Zagalejo^^^ 22:07, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Apologies, he seems to be at least 1/4 Ulster-Scottish through his paternal grandfather. and his mother was an American working in London (acting). He has English ancestry through the Weekes family and one other Mayumashu (talk) 22:20, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Mayumashu, I reverted you again... I have no particular problem with the order of the categories (though there is a policy somewhere on here if you want to review it)... I do have a problem with the source you are using to discuss Poe's ancestry at length. Keeping in mind that this is a featured article, sources must be rock solid - I have no reason to believe the web site you are using is particularly solid. No offense is meant, it just took nearly two months to get this article approved as featured and I'm very protective of its quality. --Midnightdreary (talk) 22:24, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
I understand - I unwittingly attempted the edits, which were in fact partly erroneous, unaware that this article is a feature one. Yes, as I am sure you know, RootsWeb is by no means a reliable secondary source when any particular single piece of info on it is taken at face value. A look at the several EAP family trees on it does rather confirm what citations provided by User:Zagalejo just above most likely show (I haven t looked at them yet). But in the end, looking at a unpublished secondary source discerningly to make educated guesses about the truthfulness of its info approaches original research, does nt it Mayumashu (talk) 22:37, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
It's not a major deal. Glad you're willing to talk here, of course. I think, though, we should just consider how relevant Poe's ancestry is... We say in the lede that he's an American author. Maybe we can just leave it at that? I'd be comfortable with that. --Midnightdreary (talk) 22:42, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Well, given that its a feature article, that its info needs not only to be throughly sourced but that it needs to be complete in what it says and the ancestry info, even assuming that the unpublished info is correct, in even getting back to Europe with Poe's "pedigree", is incomplete. I ve readded the cat page links (down at the bottom of the list) without any talk of ancestry in the body of the text. I ll leave my involvement here at that. best of luck with the article Mayumashu (talk) 22:51, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
I think that's a good compromise for now. Thanks for bringing all this up to begin with! --Midnightdreary (talk) 23:00, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Unblocked

I say that this page should be unblocked. New discoveries may be found out about Poe and the information should be updated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dipper4life (talk • contribs) 17:42, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Dipper4Life, this page is only on temporary semi-protection. That only means that unregistered or relatively new users can't edit it; most Wikipedia editors still can. It will soon be removed from semi-protection anyway. In the meantime, if you do have suggestions for updates, let us know! --Midnightdreary (talk) 18:02, 21 February 2008 (UTC)


A New Theory

I have come up with a new theory on how Edgar Allen Poe died. I know some poeople will diagree with my new discoveries but please just hear me out. There is evidence that supports the fact that Poe wanted to quit drinking, like letters to family members. If this is true then i believe that it could be possible that poe died from Alcoholic Withdrawl. All of the symptoms listed are compatible with Alcoholic withdrwal cases, He had fevers, blackouts, hallucinations, Convoulsions, A state of confusion, also he had no recollection of some past events, all these symptoms are linked to Severe cases of Alcoholic Withdrawl. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.200.170.203 (talk) 19:57, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestion... but where's the new theory? This one has been around for about four decades now. Anyway, this page is for talking about improving this article, not just discussing Poe. If you're suggesting your theory be added here, it constitutes original research and so we can't really include it. By the way, have you read Death of Edgar Allan Poe? It's a fairly substantial article. --Midnightdreary (talk) 20:04, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

great article

Thank you to all editers of this articke it really helped me with my school project and is well worth FA status keep up the good work--Mdavies 965 (talk) 11:42, 11 March 2008 (UTC) matthew

Really good article, agreed. I hope Raul holds off 'main page-ing' it until January next year (assuming it's still featured then). Not every day you get a chance for a 200 year anniversary! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Adacore (talk • contribs) 11:31, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Your school lets you use wikipedia? our papers are declined if it shows up on works cited because of possibility of false information, though i know that the infromation is carefully checked. Through extensive testing i know that bogus information is rapidly corrected and only valid changes can be made. Weisert (talk) 01:36, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

spelling of name

Whoever put this page together I am pretty sure that it's Edgar Allen Poe, not Allan. We have just covered this in my history class so I am pretty sure that it is spelled in this article. Oranges1fan (talk) 22:26, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

It's probably the most common mispelling in American literature (except for the word "misspelling"). Your history teacher needs to read a book: his name is Edgar Allan Poe, not coincidentally spelled the same as his foster-parents John and Frances Allan. --Midnightdreary (talk) 02:22, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Poe's brother

An article on Poe's brother, William Henry Leonard Poe, was recently started (not by me). It's currently up for deletion though it seems to be heading for a keep (I'm not at all canvassing for votes on the AfD and don't even know if folks who work on this article think Poe's brother is worthy of an article or not, obviously anyone who wants can weigh in over there). If the article survives, I'm wondering if any of the editors who helped bring this to Featured status would mind putting in a bit of work over there. Henry (as I gather he was known - I don't know anything about the Poe family but I tried to clean up the article a bit, though it's still not much and might even have inaccuracies) apparently had some significant involvement in Edgar's life and has been discussed in secondary sources. I'm imagining he's mentioned in most good Poe biographies (from looking at the article it seems he's at least mentioned in the Hervey Allen book and the one by Arthur Quinn), so I figured it might be relatively easy for editors who work on this page to add some material about him if they have access to sources. If not, no worries. Right now the article just lists a few books in the bibliography but is largely based off of an unreliable online source. I'll be keeping an eye on the page (again assuming it isn't deleted) if anyone wants to lend a hand there at some point in the future. Thanks!--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 07:54, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Help was provided, thanks Midnightdreary!--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 20:53, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Poe's Death and Voting Gangs

I heard once that Poe may have been picked up by a voting gang before his death. The story goes that these gangs used to pick up "voters" who were drunks and transport them from town to town, having them vote in each town. They were rewarded with drinks along the way. Any way to verify this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.3.6.207 (talk) 03:59, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

FWIW that theory is covered in the article on Cooping and is mentioned on the website of the Poe Society of Baltimore here but it seems like it's an unverifiable story. He was found at a place that apparently was a pub and voting place, on election day, but facts beyond that appear to be straight speculation. Jkraybill (talk) 06:13, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
The anon IP editor is a little off in his/her description... but read Death of Edgar Allan Poe for this and other theories. As far as verifying this, well, unless you know a witness... --Midnightdreary (talk) 12:38, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
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