Talk:Aphrodite

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Marriages[edit]

Aphrodite broke up with Hephaestus and married Ares and Hermes instead. She gave birth to Eros, Deimos and Phobos under Ares, and Hermaphroditos under Hermes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.73.112.94 (talk) 00:50, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

False, Aphrodite never "broke up" with Hephaestus. In fact, I don't think divorces exsisted in Greece at the time. She was very unfaithful to him, but they remained married. Yes, she bore children with Ares and Hermes, and many mortals, as well, but she was still wed to Hephaestus. Zeus had married her off to Hephaestus in order to keep peace; peace would diminish if Aphrodite were to divorce Hephaestus. MelancholyPanda (talk) 23:55, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Under Mythology>Among the Gods, there is a line "In the Iliad, Aphrodite is the apparently unmarried consort of Ares, the god of war..." referencing pg72 of Cyrino 2010. However, after examining this page and the preceding and following pages, I see no evidence that Cyrino claims that Aphrodite is the unmarried consort of Ares in the Iliad. It is true that Aphrodite is not the wife of Hephaestus in the Iliad, but this does not make her the consort of Ares. Even if she is, the reference should be changed to something that does actually comment on this information. Somniavero (talk) 15:58, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

@Somniavero: Mid-way down the page she says "In the Iliad, the wife of Hephaestus is called Charis, who receives the sea goddess Thetis into their home... but in the Odyssey, as we have seen in the song of Demodocus episode, his wife is the adulterous Aphrodite..." Since the Greeks did not practice polygamy, this obviously means that Aphrodite is not the wife of Hephaestus in the Iliad. Cyrino describes scenes from the Iliad in which Aphrodite is the consort of Ares on page 50: "In Greek mythology, Aphrodite's favorite consort is Ares, god of war: in the combat scene of book 5 of the Iliad, she borrows Ares' chariot to ride back to Olympus after she is hurt (5.350-62). Later, in the Theomachia episode of book 21, when the gods are all at each other's throats, Aphrodite is quick to help a wounded Ares off the field of combat (21.416-17)." When I wrote the sentence you are describing, I must have assumed that this information was also referenced on page 72, but, apparently, I was wrong. I have now added both page numbers to the citation. --Katolophyromai (talk) 16:35, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

Parentage[edit]

I've read that Aphrodite was the daughter of Zeus and Dione. I've also heard that Aphrodite formed from the sea without the blood of Ouranus. It's opinional on which case you confirm, but perhaps we should add the debating parentage to the article? MelancholyPanda (talk) 00:04, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Aphrodite formed from the sea without the blood of Ouranus according to Hesiod (Theogony, 191-192).
Aphrodite was the daughter of Zeus and Dione according to Pseudo-Apollodorus (Bibliotheca, 1.3.1).
The birth section, as of April 2018, already discusses this. However, the sources for each are not specifically stated (instead of "Theogony, 191-192" I see "Kerényi 1951, p. 69" and I see a generic "Iliad (Book V)" which is not even correct since it does not specifically mention Zeus as father - the proper source that states Zeus and Dione as parents of Aphrodite is actually "Bibliotheca, 1.3.1)
ICE77 (talk) 20:54, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
@ICE77: What do you mean "the sources for each are not specifically stated"? The article clearly states: "According to the version of her birth recounted by Hesiod in his Theogony..." If that is not an attribution to Hesiod, I do not know what is. Furthermore, the earliest source for Aphrodite as the daughter of Zeus and Dione is the Iliad. Book 5, line 370 clearly describes Dione as Aphrodite's "mother" and, in Book 20, line 105, Apollo clearly refers to Aphrodite as the "daughter of Zeus". The passage from Bibliotheca that you cite is relying on the Iliad, which is the earliest source to portray Aphrodite as the daughter of Zeus and Dione. --Katolophyromai (talk) 21:15, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
I have now added inline citations to the exact line numbers in both works, with links to the passages on Perseus. --Katolophyromai (talk) 21:21, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
What I meant to say was that the lines for the original passages were not given. The Theogony did not have any line numbers and the Iliad was missing line 105 from book XX. Thanks for the addition.
ICE77 (talk) 22:06, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
@ICE77: You are welcome! I apologize if my tone in my previous comments was a bit snippy; I was just a little annoyed. I am always glad to make improvements to the encyclopedia. --Katolophyromai (talk) 22:32, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

A promising source[edit]

I came across mention of this source when making some improvements to Astarte: The Origin of Aphrodite by Stephanie Budin. Capital Decisions Ltd, 2002. It looks like it covers Aphrodite's connections to Cyprus and Semitic goddesses in a lot of depth. It might be useful to anyone working on this article. A. Parrot (talk) 04:42, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 June 2015[edit]

The term "folk etymology" is used incorrectly twice in this article. Here is the first instance: "A number of folk etymologies have been proposed through the ages" (and the phrase hyperlinks to the Wikipedia article on folk etymology). But as the folk etymology article makes clear, the term "folk etymology" does NOT have anything to do with amateur or unscientific theories about the origins of words; rather it is "a technical [term] in philology and historical linguistics, referring to the change of form in the word itself, not to any actual explicit popular analysis." People who don't understand the accurate meaning of the term "folk etymology" often use it in this mistaken way, so it is especially important that Wikipedia not promote this erroneous use. After all, a reader seeking clarification who clicks on the "folk etymology" hyperlink will find the term defined correctly in a way that shows that its use in the Aphrodite article makes no sense. It's not entirely obvious what phrase would be best used instead of "folk etymologies"; perhaps "amateur etymologies" or "unscientific etymologies" or "popular etymologies" or "unscientific theories" or something along these lines. Later in the same paragraph "folk etymology" is again used in the same incorrect way: "...the medieval Etymologicum Magnum offers a highly contrived folk etymology, deriving Aphrodite from..."

Unrelatedly, this same paragraph also ends with an ungrammatical clause: "...despite of course that the name cannot be of Macedonian origin." It is not correct English to say "despite that"; one has to say, "despite the fact that" so this clause needs to be "despite of course the fact that the name cannot be of Macedonian origin" (the placement of the "of course" is still awkward, but at least it's not ungrammatical-- better still would be "despite the fact that the name cannot of course be of Macedonian origin").

72.227.133.128 (talk) 05:31, 21 June 2015 (UTC)Benjamin Friedman

Good catch, although one could argue that the term is perhaps being folk etymologised. Kafka Liz (talk) 08:26, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
Yes check.svg Done by user above –Davey2010Talk 02:53, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Kolias being an Surname of Aphrodite.[edit]

In various research books, and Archaeological discoveries she is called Aphrodite-Kolias. I wanted to bring this up since there is some unintended mix ups that Kolias was an distinct deity of foothills, but really is an surname. Anyone is welcome to verify this first before making the edit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.11.51.217 (talk) 15:05, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

A Local History of Greek Polytheism: Gods, People and the Land of Aigina ... By Irene Polinskaya. That is one source I found out about it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.11.51.217 (talk) 15:09, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

Spellng Mistake on a Protected Page[edit]

Or should I say Typographical Inconsistancy but no one is ever going to read a subject line like that. Anyways, its on the first major paragraph which relates the various greek philosophers description of the origins of Aphrodite. Specifically, Plato, in "Symposium" which wikipedia here says was written in the year "180e". Is this some kind of mathematical calculation that readers knowing the value of the natural number have to make to determine when plato said that or is it not supposed to read "180bce".

I prefer the term BC to BCE because I am not one of you pagan heretics with your fancy descriptions of epochs, wrong beliefs about hades and naked sex orgies. I wish I was. No Im just wanker pointing out a typo. Could someone fix it.

It's not a date, as Plato had been dead for centuries by then. It's a page/paragraph number in the text of the Symposium. Adam Bishop (talk) 10:16, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 September 2016[edit]

Mrclever2248 (talk) 12:54, 7 September 2016 (UTC) this is usually considered as cypriot mythology in Turkish it's called Afrodit

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Topher385 (talk) 14:50, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Self-published sources and Modern Worship of Aphrodite[edit]

These self-published sources that are being cited are adhering to wikipedia's guidelines for self-published sources, and quoting from that article: "Self-published doesn't mean a source is automatically invalid." Furthermore, "A self-published source may be used for certain claims by the author about himself, herself, or itself." These sources are describing their own practices of worship. For claims about themselves, see the guideline on that page:

1. The material is not unduly self-serving and exceptional in nature;

The quoted material is simple and describes simple acts of worship.

2. It does not involve claims about third parties;

The quoted material doesn't make any claims about other religions.

3. It does not involve claims about events not directly related to the source;

The quotes material sticks to describing its personal worship of Aphrodite.

4. There is no reasonable doubt as to its authenticity;

Speaks for itself.

5. The article is not based primarily on such sources.

This is a small addendum to the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fabianzzz (talk • contribs) 04:30, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

@Fabianzzz: You seem to be missing my point. It does not make sense to cite bunch of random blogs on the internet talking about the subject; we need to be careful make sure that we are using sources with some kind of authority, especially if we resort to using self-published sources, which is already unstable ground. You keep removing the new paragraph I added using the book by Timothy Jay Alexander, who is self-published, but is referenced in one of the academic sources that is cited in the article and seems to be regarded as something of a leading figure within contemporary Hellenistic Reconstructionism. I recommend looking at the article Heathenry (new religious movement), which is currently a Featured Article. It makes use of self-published sources where necessary, but it does not just cite random people's blogs; instead, it uses sources with at least some level of notability.
Furthermore, not only are the sources cited in the passage you keep restoring of dubious authority; they also may represent individual perspectives rather than generally-held beliefs within the religion. For instance, the source from paganwiccan.about.com seems to be the author providing her personal advice on which offerings are acceptable rather than a description of which offerings practitioners of the faith usually make. --Katolophyromai (talk) 20:46, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
I've reviewed the paragraph that begins "Hellenic polytheists of today celebrate their religious devotion to Aphrodite ..." I don't think any of the sources which have been offered to support the assertions being made here are adequate. Even with adequate sourceing I'm not sure these modern practices are notable enough for inclusion here. I would like some scholarly sources to help establish notability. Paul August ☎ 13:16, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

I was not deleting that paragraph intentionally, it was just to restore the deleted information. I will stop attempting to restore the old blogs. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fabianzzz (talk • contribs) 00:42, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

@Fabianzzz: I'm going delete the paragraph I mentioned above which currently lacks sources. You can restore anything for which you can find adequate sources. Paul August ☎ 01:46, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

Modern altar to Aphrodite image?[edit]

@Fabianzzz: I am guessing by your edit history that you are a practitioner of Hellenistic Reconstructionism. Would you happen to be able to upload a photograph of an altar to Aphrodite to Wikimedia Commons to use in the final section of the article? I have seen images of altars to her on the internet, but I cannot find any in the public domain. I found an image of an altar dedicated to Athena and Apollo for the article Athena and I thought it made a very nice addition. I was thinking that, since Aphrodite is such a popular goddess for veneration, it might be useful to include an image of an altar to her, or some sort of ceremony honoring her, perhaps. Obviously, the photograph would have to be one that you take/took yourself, or one that someone else has volunteered. I am asking you because I thought that, if I was going to find such an image, you would be the best person to ask. --Katolophyromai (talk) 04:10, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

You guess correctly. Dionysus is the only deity I maintain a shrine for, but I'll ask in some circles I travel in to see if anyone has anything! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fabianzzz (talk • contribs) 04:50, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

@Fabianzzz: That sounds excellent. I had thought you might worship Aphrodite also based on your activity on this page, but I suppose not. The picture does not necessarily have to be of an altar, but I think it would be great to have some kind of image that illustrates Aphrodite's modern worship. It could be of a ritual or a worship service of some kind. Once again, if you cannot find any pictures, that is perfectly fine, and I do not want to force you to upload anything if you do not want to; I just thought it might be a useful addition to the article. I am trying to bring this article up to "Good Article" status, like I already did with the article Athena. --Katolophyromai (talk) 10:06, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

I do worship her, however I worship numerous deities and am unable to maintain shrines for them all. There is a priestess of Aphrodite, Laurelei Black, here is her contact info. She is fundraising for a public shrine to the goddess, perhaps she could be of assistance? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fabianzzz (talk • contribs) 20:31, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

GA Review[edit]

GA toolbox
Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Aphrodite/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Iazyges (talk · contribs) 18:33, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

Will start soon. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 18:33, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

Criteria[edit]

GA Criteria

GA Criteria:

  • 1
    1.a ☑Y
    1.b ☑Y
  • 2
    2.a ☑Y
    2.b ☑Y
    2.c ☑Y
    2.d ☑Y (Highest is 13%, due mostly to incidental similarities between phrases and clauses.
  • 3
    3.a ☑Y
    3.b ☑Y
  • 4
    4.a ☑Y
  • 5
    5.a ☑Y
  • 6
    6.a ☑Y (See below)
    6.b ☑Y
  • No DAB links ☑Y (2 exist, but both are intentional)
  • No Dead links ☑Y

*Images appropriately licensed ☒N.

I have added the words "Carlos Delgado; CC-BY-SA" to the caption as you have requested. --Katolophyromai (talk) 15:50, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

Prose Suggestions[edit]

  • myrtle, roses, doves, sparrows, and swans. Is myrtle plural?
  • an idea which is now generally seen as erroneous. suggest changing idea to theory.
  • both of which claimed to be her place of birth. suggest due to the fact that both locations claimed to be the place of her birth.
  • Early classical scholars attempted to argue that Aphrodite's name was of Greek does this mean early modern scholars who talk about the classical period, or scholars of the early classical time period? If the first, suggest
  • Early scholars of classical mythology attempted to argue that Aphrodite's name was of Greek
  • See also: Category:Epithets of Aphrodite Suggest you add |Epithets of Aphrodite]] to Category:Epithets of Aphrodite on the see also.
That does not work because it is part of a "See also" template and I do not know how to pipe a link in one of those; the usual method does not work. --Katolophyromai (talk) 15:48, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
  • part of the Arrhephoria festival. suggest change to part of their Arrhephoria feast, as article indicates that it was best called a feast rather than a festival.
If you read the rest of the article, it later describes the Arrephoria as a "festival" and several my sources describe it as a "festival" also, if I remember correctly. The words "feast" and "festival" are sometimes used interchangeably. Besides, the Arrephoria definitely involved celebrations other than just feasting. --Katolophyromai (talk) 15:48, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
  • Pseudo-Apollodorus later mentions "Metharme, daughter of Pygmalion, king of Cyprus". link Pseudo-Apollodorus.
  • Consorts and children section suggest you add citations to all the people here.
I will take care of this last one later today when I have more time. --Katolophyromai (talk) 15:48, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
I have now taken care of this. --Katolophyromai (talk) 21:47, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
  • which was probably originally part of a massive altar that was originally double usage of originally, suggest you switch the first originally to once.
I removed the redundant word. --Katolophyromai (talk) 19:01, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
@Iazyges: I believe I have now fully addressed all of your criticisms that you have offered here. --Katolophyromai (talk) 21:48, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

NSFW Content[edit]

I have detected some NSFW content. Should I delete them, or leave it?

Lomrjyo (talk) 00:52, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

You are clearly new here. Per WP:UNCENSORED, the images can and should be kept. They are absolutely vital for a complete understanding of Aphrodite and to remove them would severely diminish the encyclopedic usefulness of the article. In any case, classical paintings and sculptures by renowned artists are hardly what a person would typically call pornography. In any case, the images used in this article are certainly nowhere close to being the most obscene images we have in our articles; the articles vulva and human penis both have up-close photographs of their respective genitalia used as their main images. --Katolophyromai (talk) 01:07, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Discrepancies (parentage and epithets)[edit]

I found a couple of discrepancies on Aphrodite's parentage and epithets.

1. Aphrodite was the daughter of Zeus and Dione according to Pseudo-Apollodorus (Bibliotheca, 1.3.1). Homer (Iliad, book V, line 370) does not specifically mention Zeus as the father. The link should be corrected.

2. The article says that Aphrodite "was also known as Cytherea (Lady of Cythera) and Cypris (Lady of Cyprus)". I don't know where "Cypris" is coming from. I suspect it comes from Homer (Iliad, book V, line 330) which is where I see the first reference to Aphrodite with such name in the Iliad.

Hesiod (Theogony, lines 196-199) says that Gods and men call her Aphrodite (foam-arisen), Cytherea ("because she reached Cythera") as well as Cyprogeneses ("because she was born in billowy Cyprus"). This source and the additional epithet should be added to the article.

ICE77 (talk) 21:14, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

@ICE77: Please read my response to your comment above. The Iliad does identify Zeus as Aphrodite's father in Book Twenty, line 105. The passage from Pseudo-Apollodorus that you keep referring to is relying on the Iliad. --Katolophyromai (talk) 21:28, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

1. In line with the comments I wrote above for the Parentage entry from MelancholyPanda, I guess we now have the missing line that state Zeus is the father of Aphrodite (not available until I pointed it out).

ICE77 (talk) 22:14, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

Intro: un-cited statements contradicted by linked wikipedia entry[edit]

"She was also the patron goddess of prostitutes, an association which led early scholars to propose the concept of "sacred prostitution", an idea which is now generally seen as erroneous."

No source given, wikipedia article about "sacred prostitution" seems to indicate that scholars still agree that sacred prostitution was a real practice... does this sentence indicate that the link between the cult of Aphrodite and sacred prostitution was erroneous, or that the general historical practice of sacred prostitution did not exist? Also, citation needed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.19.187.217 (talk) 17:09, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

@216.19.187.217: Per the usual interpretation of WP:CITELEAD implemented in recent Featured Articles, the lead is supposed to be an uncited summary of the rest of the article. All statements in the lead are supported by more in-depth passages in the body of the article itself, which are supported by reliable sources. The statement you are describing is, in fact, cited, but the citations are in the main paragraph about sacred prostitution, which is the last paragraph of the subsection "Classical period" under "Worship." The article about sacred prostitution is outdated and needs to be updated. A large number of popular sources still, unfortunately, lend credence to the sacred prostitution myth, but the only evidence to support it is a single, ambiguous skolion by Pindar, which most scholars now believe to have been egregiously misinterpreted. --Katolophyromai (talk) 19:59, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
There is only one sentence at sacred prostitution that's relevant both to Aphrodite and to Greece, but there is a bit more at prostitution in ancient Greece, where Pindar is cited and Strabo is quoted at length (see also the talk page). There is other evidence about ancient sacred prostitution generally, at various places from Mesopotamia in the east to Sicily in the west. I guess a question here at Aphrodite is whether the relevance to Aphrodite of apparent sacred prostitution at Corinth, given the limited evidence, is sufficient to justify mentioning sacred prostitution in the lead. On the other hand, there's lots of evidence for the other half of the lead sentence, that Aphrodite was a patron goddess for prostitutes. Andrew Dalby 10:08, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
It is a current attempt of certain Cypriot "historians" to change the status of their Goddess to one that conforms more to the current social "norms". Unfortunately for them, there are tens if not hundreds of peer-reviewed articles providing evidence for sexual prostitution as being part of Aphrodite worshiping; and there are none that provide evidence for the contrary. As a researcher on the cult of Aphrodite I could provide many citations but I see there are already many on this wikipedia page. Thus that sentence in the intro seems greatly out of place. I can't edit it out but I hope someone else does. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.207.112.64 (talk) 16:20, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

The additions on Aphrodite and Homosexuality[edit]

I'm concerned that some of the additions about Aphrodite and homosexuality represent original research and are improperly sourced to articles that don't support them. For instance:

According to the Symposium, Aphrodite Ourania is the inspiration of male homosexual desire, specifically the ephebic eros. Aphrodite Pandemos, by contrast, is the younger of the two goddesses: the common Aphrodite, born from the union of Zeus and Dione, and the inspiration of heterosexual desire, the "lesser" of the two loves.[1][2]

This claim is sourced to Plato's Symposium itself and to Richard Hunter's book on the Symposium. When I checked Hunter, he says nothing of the sort.

Similiarly, this section, recently added:

Aphrodite and gods in her retinue, such as the Erotes: Eros, Himeros and Pothos are sometimes considered patrons of homosexual love between males.[3][4] In the poetry of Sappho, Aphrodite is identified as the patron of lesbians.[3]

The first claim is sourced to Cassell's Encyclopedia of Queer Myth, which, again, says nothing of the sort - the same reference is then used to say that Aphrodite is the patron of Lesbians, and again, it is not in the citation given. The only properly sourced claim here seems to be about Eros, not Aphrodite.

Unless an actual reliable source can be found saying "Aphrodite is the patron of Lesbains" (which assuredly does not exist), we need to remove these additions.--Ermenrich (talk) 13:22, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

The latter addition was copypasted across from LGBT themes in mythology, so that page would have to be corrected as well. —VeryRarelyStable (talk) 23:28, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Plato, Symposium 181a-d.
  2. ^ Richard L. Hunter, Plato's Symposium, Oxford University Press: 2004, p. 44
  3. ^ a b Conner, Randy P.; Sparks, David Hatfield; Sparks, Mariya (1998). Cassell's Encyclopedia of Queer Myth, Symbol and Spirit. UK: Cassell. p. 64. ISBN 0-304-70423-7.
  4. ^ Conner & Sparks (1998), p. 133

Listing as a "homosexuality and bisexuality goddess"[edit]

@VeryRarelyStable:, I don't think this category is warrented. All we have is a single reference in Plato to the idea that one of two Aphrodites is supposedly the goddess of pederasty. None of the rest of the article supports this notion, and scholars are fairly clear that this is Plato's own invention. Furthermore, the nature of the category suggests that Aphrodite is the goddess of homosexuality and bisexuality, which is quite obviously not true.--Ermenrich (talk) 22:25, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

@Ermenrich: If Aphrodite was not a goddess of same-gender attraction, then either
  • some other god was
  • this aspect of life was not considered to be under the jurisdiction of the gods
or
  • this aspect of life was not known to the Greeks
—none of which, I put it to you, is the case. Unless we suggest that the Erotes were the other gods under the first possibility; but they clearly answer to Aphrodite.
While Sappho's appeal to Aphrodite may not establish the latter as a "patron" of lesbianism, or whatever language you might use, it does clearly demonstrate that, when you felt attraction to a person of your own gender, it was Aphrodite you prayed to for help. (I don't recall whether Sappho is mentioned on the page after the most recent edits, but she should be.)
If that's not what's meant by "goddess of homosexuality and bisexuality" – why the emphasis on "of"? – then I confess myself ignorant as to what is meant.
—VeryRarelyStable (talk) 04:20, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
You prayed to Aphrodite for help if you felt opposite-sex attraction too. She was the goddess of love, not of some particular type of love.--Ermenrich (talk) 14:29, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
@VeryRarelyStable: your argument for inclusion, however reasonable, constitutes of course original research. Paul August ☎ 18:11, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
I agree with Ermenrich, the category is unwarrented. What we would need here are reliable secondary sources. Paul August ☎ 18:11, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
@VeryRarelyStable: I think you may be misunderstanding a few things a bit here. First of all, the relationship between a deity and their domain was not one-to-one. There were areas of human life that, at least as far as we know, had no specific deities to govern them. For instance, as far as I currently can recall, there were no Greek gods whose domain specifically included wild grasses and ferns, but grass is a pretty common element in most people's lives. Furthermore, multiple deities could be associated with the same thing. For instance, Aphrodite is associated with sexual desire, but so is Eros; their domains overlap.
Second of all, as I have already mentioned in this edit summary, there has been a widespread consensus among scholars for at least several decades that the ancient Greeks had no concepts of people being "heterosexual," "bisexual," or "homosexual"; they only recognized there being heterosexual and homosexual acts—not heterosexual or homosexual people. Usually when we say "homosexuality" or "bisexuality" in English, we are talking about people being one or the other of those things. Therefore, labelling any Greek deity as a "god/goddess of bisexuality/homosexuality" would be an egregious mischaracterization. I hope this explanation is helpful. —Katolophyromai (talk) 04:17, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
@Katolophyromai: I think I understand both of these points pretty well. Paul August's point about original research, I must admit, is well-made.
Starting with the second point, yes, I am well aware that the concept of sexual orientation is a modern one. However, the category in question does not refer to "homosexual and bisexual orientation", but more broadly to "homosexuality and bisexuality" – both words that can refer to acts as well as people.
On the first point, I'm under no illusion that Greek deities had exclusive claims over their domains, as if they were something out of a role-playing game. But we wouldn't baulk at – for instance – categorizing Zeus as a "god of thunder" merely because he was, more broadly, a "god of weather". Sexual desire was Aphrodite's specialty; sexual desire included desire for one's own gender; ergo, Aphrodite was the god you would turn to, as Sappho instantiates, if you wanted divine help with your desire for a person of your own gender. Maybe second after Eros for some people, but she was closely linked, mythologically, to Eros.
The reason I'm picking nits over this is that certain users, to judge by their contribs pages, appear to have taken it as their mission to systematically remove as many references to LGBT sexualities in historical pages as they can get away with. The relative acceptance of same-gender desire at least between men is a notable feature of ancient Greek culture, and I am concerned that it should not be under-represented, obviously while remaining within Wikipedia guidelines.
—VeryRarelyStable (talk) 05:34, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
@VeryRarelyStable: Well, this issue is actually very complicated and it is important to note that the "relative acceptance" you speak of was actually highly conditional. This issue of ancient Greek views on homosexuality gets really complicated and I do not want to go into a full explanation here; I am currently writing an article about ancient Greek attitudes towards homosexuality on my website in which I plan to explain this issue in great depth. I do not know when I will finish that article, though, and it may be a while. In the meantime, I highly recommend the third and most recent edition of the book Greek Homosexuality by Kenneth Dover, published by Harvard University Press, which delves into the ways in which Greek acceptance of homosexual activity was actually somewhat limited. —Katolophyromai (talk) 06:31, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
Unless you can find reliable sources stating that Aphrodite is a goddess of homosexuality, the category is WP:OR and needs to be removed. As Katolophyromai explains, it is completely anachronistic to even describe homosexuality in ancient Greece. Aphrodite (and Eros, for that matter) were both simply love gods, not gods of homosexual love specifically. Sappho calls on her, but so does every other Greek poet in love. Is Cupid the god of heterosexuality because Ovid calls on him in the Amores? You're forcing a modern category on them.--Ermenrich (talk) 13:41, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
@Ermenrich: How do you suggest we correct the error without leaving the false impression, to readers from modern societies in which heterosexuality is the default, that Aphrodite was a goddess only of heterosexual love? —VeryRarelyStable (talk) 01:38, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
I'm not sure why anyone would think that, but listing her as a goddess of homosexuality makes as little sense as listing her as a goddess of heterosexuality. Perhaps @Katolophyromai: has some ideas for how to approach that particular issue, but in the meantime there is a clear consensus against including this category and I'm removing it.--Ermenrich (talk) 13:29, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

There should be a hyperlinked reference about the sanctuary that marks her birthplace[edit]

Under the "Birth" section, after this sentence:

> Aphrodite is usually said to have been born near her chief center of worship, Paphos, on the island of Cyprus, which is why she is sometimes called "Cyprian", especially in the poetic works of Sappho.

I think it would be highly relevant to say this–and the sanctuary is not mentioned anywhere else in article:

> The Sanctuary of Aphrodite Paphia, marking her birthplace, and was a place of pilgrimages in the ancient world for centuries, and the ruins thereof can still be visited to this day.

And then start the next sentence without "However" and just say:

> Other versions of her myth ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aphrodite#Birth

InternetUser25 (talk) 02:12, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

Done, minus unencyclopaedic language about "ruins thereof" (that information is available at the wikilink).—VeryRarelyStable (talk) 02:40, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

Identification with the planet Venus[edit]

Is this something that should be removed, or should it be expanded upon somewhere in the main body? As shown on the planet's page, the Greeks initially assumed Venus was two different stars; Phosphorus (the morning star), and Hesperus (the evening star). However, either Pythagoras or Parmenides had realized by the 500s BC that both were actually one object. I'm guessing that when the Romans colonized Greece, eventually they also must have realized that Venus was one object rather than two and gave it that name. And given the heavy syncretization between the Roman and Greek gods, the Romans must have called the planet Venus because the Greeks did too; calling it Aphrodite. Lastly, in Greek, we do refer to the planet as Aphrodite. In general, the whole things seems somehwat complicated. PanagiotisZois (talk) 16:20, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

Aphrodite in the Iliad[edit]

Is there more information on the portrayal of Aphrodite in the Iliad.GOC2020 (talk) 21:06, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

Removed paragraph[edit]

Someone added this paragraph to the "Anger myths" section. It has some good information in it, but it is really poorly written and would take ages for me to clean up, which I don't have time for right now. It is written entirely in a sort of pseudo-archaic language and it has tons of grammar mistakes and words that are apparently missing. It is absurdly long and should really be broken in multiple paragraphs. For some reason half of it is randomly in italics. It had an "end blockquote" tag in it at one point (which I have removed here) but no "begin blockquote" tag. Part of it is apparently quoted from some source, but it is entirely unclear which source is being quoted. Here is the paragraph that I have removed:

Aphrodite who cursed goddess Eos to be perpetually in love and have an insatiable sexual desire because once had Eos lain with Aphrodite's sweetheart Ares, the god of war. [1] Propoetides had dared to deny Venus' [Aphrodite's] divinity. For that the goddess' rage, it's said, made them the first strumpets to prostitute their bodies' charms. As shame retreated and their cheeks grew hard, they turned with little change to stones of flint.[2] Cinyras's daughters Braesia, Laogora, Orsedice by reason of the wrath of Aphrodite cohabited with foreigners, and ended their life in Egypt.[3] Halia, a nymph who lived on an island that would later be named Rhodes after her only daughter, Rhodos (or Rhode). Halia was the daughter of Thalassa, sister of the Telchines, and mother of Rhodos and six sons by Poseidon. Shortly after Aphrodite's birth, the goddess was traveling the oceans. When Halia's young sons arrogantly refused to let Aphrodite land upon their shore, the goddess cursed them with insanity. In their madness, they raped Halia. As punishment, Poseidon buried them in the island's sea-caverns.[4] Xanthius was a descendant of Bellerophon, and father of Leucippus and an unnamed daughter. Through the wrath of Aphrodite, Leucippus fell in love with his own sister. The passion turned out too strong for him to suppress, so he addressed his mother, imploring her to help him and threatening that he would kill himself if she didn't. She united the girl to Leucippus, and they consorted for a while. But the girl was already betrothed to another man, to whom someone reported the matter. The groom went on to inform Xanthius, without telling him the name of the seducer. Xanthius went straight to his daughter's chamber, where she was together with Leucippus right at the moment. On hearing him enter, she tried to escape, but Xanthius hit her with a dagger, thinking that he was slaying the seducer, and killed her. Leucippus, failing to recognize his father at first, slew him. When the truth was revealed, he had to leave the country and took part in colonization of Crete and the lands in Asia Minor. Later, he was loved by Leucophrye.[5] Adonis was the son of Myrrha, who was cursed by Aphrodite with insatiable lust for her own father, King Cinyras of Cyprus,[6][7][8] after Myrrha's mother bragged that her daughter was more beautiful than the goddess.[6][7] Driven out after becoming pregnant, Myrrha was changed into a myrrh tree, but still gave birth to Adonis.[6][9][10] Clio fell in love with Pierus, son of Magnes, in consequence of the wrath of Aphrodite, whom she had twitted with her love of Adonis; and having met him she bore him a son Hyacinth.[11] Despite Diomedes's noble treatment of her son Aeneas, Aphrodite never managed to forget about the Argive spear that had once pierced her flesh in the fields of Troy. She helped his wife Aegialia to obtain not one, but many lovers. (According to different traditions, Aegialeia was living in adultery with Hippolytus, Cometes or Cyllabarus.)[12] Aegialia, being helped by the Argives, prevented Diomedes from entering the city. Or else, if he ever entered Argos, he had to take sanctuary at the altar of Hera, and thence flee with his companions by night.[13] Cometes was shortly the king of Argos, in Diomedes' absence, but was quickly replaced by the rightful heir, Cyanippus, who was the son of Aegialeus.

I'm leaving this here just for future reference so it will be easy to find in case someone is willing to clean this up to make it readable and restore it to the article. —Katolophyromai (talk) 06:28, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

  1. ^ Bibliotheca (Pseudo-Apollodorus)|Pseudo-Apollodorus, The Library with an English Translation by Sir James George Frazer, F.B.A., F.R.S. in 2 Volumes, Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1921. Online version at the Perseus Digital Library. Greek text available from the same website.
  2. ^ Ovid's Metamorphoses, book 10, English Translation
  3. ^ Pseudo-Apollodorus, Bibliotheca, 3. 14. 3; 3. 9. 1 for Laodice
  4. ^ Diodorus Siculus, Bibliotheca historica 5.55.4–7
  5. ^ Parthenius, Erotica Pathemata 5
  6. ^ a b c Ovid, Metamorphoses X, 298–518
  7. ^ a b Kerényi 1951, p. 75.
  8. ^ Hansen 2004, p. 289.
  9. ^ Kerényi 1951, pp. 75–76.
  10. ^ Hansen 2004, pp. 289–290.
  11. ^ Pseudo-Apollodorus, Bibliotheca 1.3.3
  12. ^ Dictys Cretensis 6. 2; Tzetzes on Lycophron 609; Servius on Aeneid 8. 9.
  13. ^ Tzetzes on Lycophron 602
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