Talk:List of former sovereign states

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to navigation Jump to search
WikiProject Former countries (Rated List-class)
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Former countries, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of defunct states and territories (and their subdivisions). If you would like to participate, please join the project.
 List  This article has been rated as List-Class on the project's quality scale.
 
WikiProject Geography (Rated List-class)
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Geography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of geography on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
 List  This article has been rated as List-Class on the project's quality scale.
 

Ideas for improvement from archived sections[edit]

  • Add the hundreds of states that sprung up during the Russian Civil War; see: http://worldstatesmen.org/Russia_war.html
  • Link to the entity a former state became or merged into (like Former countries in Europe after 1815)
  • Somehow indicate states that continued with the same territory, but merely changed government.
    • Merge lists of annexed and dismembered states into main tables with fates listed.
  • Add dates to states without them, for verification that they are in the correct section (and to help readers)

Earliest dates for inclusion[edit]

Several regions/modern countries (Britain, Iberia, France, Germany) have their various predecessor states listed back to the fall of the Roman Empire or thereabouts, but others (e.g. Russia, Italy) only list predecessors from the Early Modern, or even 19th Century. Is there a deliberate reason for this, or is it just no-one has got around to adding them? Also, is there a reason the Selucid Empire is missing from Persia? 62.172.108.23 (talk) 17:21, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Everything before the Early Modern period is on List of pre-modern states, including Seleucid Empire. -- Beland (talk) 20:31, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Modern states?[edit]

Reading this article one can notice that Frankish Empire was an state of modern france. I disagree.

There is a section for former medieval kingdoms. Modern states list it is too long. It shouldn't be made longer by adding more medieval states. They have their own category. I removed the most obvious medieval ones from the list and only left the ones which last until modern times. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Caquinoh (talk • contribs) 00:00, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Confederation of the Equator, Juliana Republic, etc...[edit]

I'd like to point out that the Juliana Republic never existed. Rebells took a small town in southern Santa Catarina province and "created" that republic. The government retook the town a few months later. The rebels never conquered the province's capital, or any other town.

The same applies to the Confederation of the Equator and to the Riograndense Republic. The rebels had a few towns in their control, but they never managed to rule over an entire province. --Lecen (talk) 22:33, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

All have since been removed. -- Beland (talk) 20:32, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

County of Foix[edit]

The County of Foix may only have become a crown land in the 17th century but it has been a fief of France throughout. If Foix is t be listed we could list all of France's fiefs. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 19:44, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Bold removals[edit]

I've WP:BOLDly removed several bulleted items which mentioned the Philippines from this article because, in my understanding, these items do not meet the stated criteria for inclusion. Please discuss at the the relevant point below, where I've copied the individual items I removed and described the article sections/subsections from which they were removed. If I have been too bold in some or all of these removals, reinsert them. However, please discuss reinsertions at the relevant point below.

I have only removed bulleted items mentioning the Philippines, but I suspect that a number of other items may not meet these inclusion criteria. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 23:15, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

Inclusion criteria[edit]

For ease of reference, I'll reproduce the relevant inclusion criteria below:

The criteria for inclusion in this list is similar to that of the List of states with limited recognition. To be included here, a polity must have claimed statehood and either:
  • had de facto control over a territory, a population, a government, a capacity to enter into relations with other states, or
  • have been recognised as a state by at least one other state.

As I understand it, the inclusion criteria are met by either satisfying all three criteria in the first bulleted item or by satisfying the single criterion in the second bulleted item.

Removed from Asia -> In the Philippines[edit]

This seems to refer to the Katipunan insurgency under Andres Bonifacio described in the first part of the wikilinked article, members of which decided to style themselves as a national government in late August of 1896. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 23:15, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
This refers to an insurgency under Emilio Aguinaldo which had been largely inactive since December 1897 with its leadership in exile in Hong Kong and Singapore (see Pact of Biak-na-Bato), which became active again in 1898 during the Spanish-American War, which declared independence from Spain during that war, which styled itself as a constitutional government after sovereignty over the Philippines was passed from Spain to the United States in the Treaty of Paris (1898), and which fought an unsuccessful war of independence against the U.S. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 23:15, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

Removed from Oceania[edit]

(Note: The Philippines is located in Asia, not in Oceania)

This does not meet the inclusion criteria.

Removed from Modern states and territories by type -> Former colonies, possessions, protectorates and territories -> North America[edit]

Removed from Modern states and territories by type -> Former colonies, possessions, protectorates and territories -> Oceania[edit]

(Note: The Philippines is located in Asia, not in Oceania)

Philippines: Sultanate of Rajah Buayan[edit]

I have moved Sultanate of Rajah Buayan here from the list of former sovereign states in the Philippines. Sultanate of Rajah Buayan currently redirects to Rajah Buayan, Maguindanao, which is a nonpolitical article about a 6th class municipality in the province of Maguindanao, Philippines.

From what I see here, this seems to refer to what is called there the Rajah Buayan Sultanate from 1899 to 1910 (the time of the 18th Sultan) and probably prior to that. The Philippines was under U.S. sovereignty from December 10, 1898 until July 4, 1946 and under Spanish sovereignty for some 300 years prior to that. There were insurgencies during the American period -- notably the Philippine-American War but, also and separately during and after that major conflict, in Mindanao and Tawi-Tawi. Those insurgencies still continue (or, if continue is not a good characterization, they re-erupt from time to time) up to the present. I'm guessing that there were probably related insurgencies during the Spanish period as well.

From what I can see, the Sultanate of Rajah Buayan is not now a sovereign state and probably has not been at least within the past 400+ years. Also, it looks to me as if the redirect at Sultanate of Rajah Buayan should be removed. See also Talk:Sultanate of Rajah Buayan#Merge into the municipality article? I may replace that rdirect with a stub article, or I might not get around to doing that. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 03:42, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

What is this article supposed to list?[edit]

Even before you get to the actual list of states, this article seems confused as to what it is actually supposed to be about. Is it:

  • All extinct states (given that List of extinct states redirects here)?
  • Former sovereign states (as implied by the title)?
  • Historical sovereign states and non-sovereign states (as implied by the first line of the lede)?
  • Sovereign states, countries, nations, empires or territories (as stated by the second line of the lede)?
  • Recognized states (as per the criteria for inclusion)?
  • Post-medieval states (given that all older ones have been hived off to other articles)?

Iapetus (talk) 16:16, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on List of former sovereign states. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

As of February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{sourcecheck}} (last update: 15 July 2018).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 15:25, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

Catalonia keeps appearing[edit]

Catalonia keeps appearing as having been sovereign for a few days in October 2017. It was not. The regional government issued a declaration of independence, but even they admit it was a purely symbolic act (and they immediately "suspended" it in any case). There was never a Catalan state exercising sovereign authority. If even the government of the putative state does not recognize it, it was not a sovereign state in any sense. Hogweard (talk) 15:47, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 11:07, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:53, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 23:26, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

IP edit[edit]

Dear IP,

please explain the reason of the mass removals. Thank you.(KIENGIR (talk) 18:34, 9 September 2020 (UTC))


Much of the "Sovereign States" listed were not in fact sovereign states and therefore do not meet the criteria of this article - I P — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.168.92.239 (talk) 23:34, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 18:55, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

The asserted sovereignty of some states listed here was generally unrecognized.[edit]

This line in the lead section came from this August 2020 edit, the edit summary of which suggested that the entries to which this applies should be flagged individually, with clarifying footnotes. Any objections? Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 13:25, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

IP edits[edit]

Dear IPs,

why are you keeping on adding dynasties which are not states?(KIENGIR (talk) 19:43, 7 October 2020 (UTC))

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 14:13, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:List_of_former_sovereign_states&oldid=987507108"